Chat Log - Sessions 1-16

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dmick    I should not be surprised that the Youtube stream is not up yet?    15:00
rturk    Hey folks!  We're going to get started in a minute    15:00
ircolle    w00t!    15:00
loicd    \o    15:00
rturk    Sage is wrestling with Google Hangouts :)    15:00
rturk    Okay, we're live!    15:02
scuttlemonkey    ** ======= CDS =======    15:02
scuttlemonkey    ** Ceph Developer Summit is now getting underway.    15:02
scuttlemonkey    ** For details visit:    15:02
scuttlemonkey    ** All CDS discussion should be directed to #ceph-summit    15:02
scuttlemonkey    ** The first On-Air Broadcast can be seen at:    15:02
scuttlemonkey    ** Please direct questions or On-Air participation requests to  scuttlemonkey or rturk    15:02
scuttlemonkey    ** ======= CDS =======    15:02
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sagewk    hi everyone!    15:02
rturk    yay!    15:02
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ircolle    I can see you on youtube    15:03
rturk    ircolle: the youtube stream is a minute or two delayed usually    15:03
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dmick    live it is    15:03
rturk    "live"    15:03
strp    I get a HTTP 500 error on the youtube stream :(    15:03
buck    I'm not having any issues (just as a data point, sorry strp:   :/)    15:04
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mikedawson    strp: working for me, too    15:04
rturk    strp: maybe the URL got mangled?    15:04
* loicd getting "incompatible video format", searching    15:05
rturk    hmm    15:05
* rturk goes and gets his spare laptop to test    15:05
* loicd using a galaxy SIII    15:06
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rturk    behlendorf: hi!    15:06
strp    got it working on my tablet, weird    15:07
nhm    behlendorf: hey, glad you made it. :)    15:07
nhm    <- Mark    15:07
ircolle    behlendorf must be here for the ZFS stuff ;-)    15:07
rturk    <- Ross    15:08
behlendorf    Yup, glad to make it.  :)    15:08
ircolle    <- ircolle    15:08
dmick    10 GOTO 10    15:08
nhm    behlendorf: keynote going on now.  Got the youtube video?    15:08
behlendorf    Yup    15:09
ircolle    behlendorf - probably worth adding you to hangout for ZFS session    15:09
rturk    yeah - I'll be checking about 5m before each session starts and doling out hangout URLs    15:10
rturk    I'll make sure behlendorf is in the zfs talk for usre    15:10
behlendorf    rturk: Not sure I can join the hangout sadly.    15:12
rturk    ah, ok    15:13
rturk    we'll make sure all the ppl in the hangout are also watching this chan    15:13
rturk    you can use all caps for urgent points :)    15:13
mikedawson    rturk: Can you add me to the RBD sessions?    15:13
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rturk    yep, I'll send you the URL before that talk    15:14
mikedawson    rturk: thx    15:14
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dmick    "rest" ;)    15:15
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loicd    \o/    15:19
rturk    :)    15:19
loicd    connected exactly at the moment sage says my name :-D    15:19
nhm    loicd: lol    15:19
rturk    ** The session "osd: ceph on zfs" starts in about 5 minutes.  If you want to be in the hangout, let me know!    15:24
rturk    If you have questions for Sage, post them here :)    15:25
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rturk    ** The session "osd: ceph on zfs" is starting soon!  If you want to be in the hangout, let me know.    15:27
cjh_    how is the rbd fuse client coming along in performance vs the kernel client?    15:28
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* nhm waves    15:29
scuttlemonkey    nhm: joining for zfs?    15:29
nhm    scuttlemonkey: sure    15:30
rturk    Ok - we're starting "osd: ceph on zfs".  If you'd like to be added to the hangout, drop me a line and I'll send you the link    15:30
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nhm    scuttlemonkey: I can be off if there are others that want in    15:30
cjh_    ok thanks sage :)    15:31
scuttlemonkey    only at 7/10    15:31
szaydel    What is the google URL, I am sorry.    15:31
rturk    szaydel: I just PMed it to you    15:31
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szaydel    Thx!    15:31
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rturk    For those of you still arriving, ping me if you want to join the hangout    15:32
scuttlemonkey    if you have notes you would like to add hit the etherpad:    15:32
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ccourtaut    nice commits graph, good news for ceph!    15:33
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scuttlemonkey    ccourtaut: yeah, Ross has been pulling together a lot of community stats that are quite encouraging    15:34
scuttlemonkey    rturk: we should publish some of the dashboard stuff on the blog    15:35
rturk    yes we should    15:35
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sjustlaptop    rturk: link again?    15:35
behlendorf    Most of the needed zfs interfaces are available in user space as libraries.    15:35
rturk    sjustlaptop: sent via pm    15:36
yanzheng    how do we handle stability issue of zfsonlinux    15:38
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sjustlaptop    good bug reports :)    15:38
ircolle    yanzheng?    15:38
haomaiwa_    ping rturk    15:38
yanzheng    it's rollback feature are very buggy    15:38
rturk    haomaiwa_: I sent the hangout URL to you    15:39
haomaiwa_    Yep    15:39
sjustlaptop    sagewk: you are cutting out    15:39
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behlendorf    yanzheng: It's only online rollback which may still have issues.    15:40
yanzheng    yes, i think so    15:41
yanzheng    i also experienced umount hang    15:41
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sagewk    libzfs on linux?    15:43
sagewk    or ioctls?    15:43
behlendorf    There is an ioctl() interface through libzfs on Linux.    15:43
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behlendorf    All the zfs/zpool utilities link against libzfs so anything you could do with the utils you can do with the library.    15:44
yanzheng    zfsonlinux hang in the kernel    15:44
rturk    yep    15:45
behlendorf    yanzheng: If we can get a good bug report we'll of course want to squash that bug.    15:46
rturk    etherpad for this talk is her:    15:46
rturk    here    15:46
nwat    certainly as far as the backingfielsystem abstraction, doing that for btrfs and ext4 might make sense for some of the porting stuff...    15:48
erice    sagewk: Willing to do testing and integration work    15:48
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rturk    ** The session "osd: Add LevelDB support to ceph cluster backend store" is starting a bit early!  Let rturk or scuttlemonkey know if you want to join the hangout.    15:51
haomaiwa_    Hi, I'm sorry that my network connection is reset by *GFW* every minute!!!! Everyone can view my points at epad...    15:52
rturk    haomaiwa_: disabling video might help stabilize your audio connection    15:52
scuttlemonkey    haomaiwa_: yikes! Sorry to hear that    15:52
behlendorf    Doing the zfs work should be pretty straight forward and I'm happy to help if people have issues getting it cleanly integrated.    15:52
haomaiwa_    the connction to Google Hangout    15:53
rturk    behlendorf: thanks :)    15:53
rturk    we will keep you up to date    15:53
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sagewk    try disabling video    15:53
mikedawson    mikedawson: +1 for more monitor/leveldb stability!    15:54
scuttlemonkey    Can you say a few word Haomai?    15:54
dalgaaf    sage: then please point out in the release notes that we need a newer version of leveldb so that the distros have an info that they need a new version of leveldb    15:55
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haomaiwa_    Oh, :-(((((    15:58
haomaiwa_    reset again    15:58
haomaiwa_    I'm sorry...    15:58
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rturk    no problem, we'll be here :)    15:58
nhm    Question:  Does a hybrid approach make sense if there are also large objects or lots of objects?    15:59
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haomaiwa_    OH, NO    15:59
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haomaiwa_    It seemed that I can't join .....I'm staleness with the connectin.....    16:00
scuttlemonkey    haomai: can you participate by watching the youtube stream and typing?    16:00
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scuttlemonkey    16:01
haomaiwa_    OK, I'm watching youtube stream now and typ8ing    16:01
scuttlemonkey    ok    16:01
nhm    scuttlemonkey: lots of latency    16:01
scuttlemonkey    nhm: yeah    16:01
scuttlemonkey    imperfect to be sure    16:01
* rturk wonders if there's someone he can pay to solve videoconferencing for the next summit.    16:01
jyluke    @rturk: I will be driving work, hopefully be able to join back in time for ceph-deploy    16:01
cephalobot    jyluke: Error: "rturk:" is not a valid command.    16:01
rturk    jyluke: okay    16:02
* rturk tells cephalobot to be quiet    16:02
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rturk    ** The session "osd: clone from journal on btrfs" starts soon!  Let rturk or scuttlemonkey know if you want to join the hangout.    16:08
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mikedawson    Could a leveldb backend be used for small writes with a bypass for large writes? Similar to bcache's sequential write bypass.    16:11
haomaiwa_    I think there    16:12
yanzheng    i was hoping we implement mds's backtrace feature this way    16:12
scuttlemonkey    yanzheng: can you elaborate?    16:14
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scuttlemonkey    haomai: would you be willing to own this blueprint going forward? We are here to help via mailing list/irc    16:16
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scuttlemonkey    just want to know someone is driving it forward    16:16
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haomaiwa_    OK    16:16
rturk    ** Starting Now    16:17
rturk    Session: osd: clone from journal on btrfs    16:17
rturk    Blueprint:    16:17
rturk    Pad:    16:17
scuttlemonkey    haomaiwa_: feel free to clean up the notes from the etherpad as they make sense and move them to the blueprint    16:18
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scuttlemonkey    we're encouraging people to use the blueprint as a running notepad of work done.  I'm happy to help if you run into any problems    16:19
haomaiwa_    Got it    16:19
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rturk    ** The session "ceph-deploy" starts in 5 minutes!  Let rturk or scuttlemonkey know if you want to join the hangout.    16:25
scuttlemonkey    This will be our last session on this video URL    16:25
scuttlemonkey    we'll post the next streaming URL during the short break between sessions    16:25
davidzlap    So maybe you want  to align and pad so that there isn't fragmentation    16:25
rturk    the ceph-deploy session will be the last, right?    16:26
rturk    not the current one    16:26
alfredodeza    there is a break    16:26
alfredodeza    it is not the last one    16:26
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scuttlemonkey    right, ceph-deploy will be the final    16:26
scuttlemonkey    I should have said "that will be..." not "this will be..."    16:26
scuttlemonkey    #englishfail    16:26
* rturk thinks surely there's someone who has some thoughts to share about ceph-deploy :)    16:27
alfredodeza    :)    16:27
erice    rturk: I would like to join ceph-deploy    16:30
rturk    erice: link sent via pm    16:31
rturk    ** The session "ceph-deploy" is starting now!    16:31
rturk    ** Pad:    16:31
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    16:31
Vincent_Valentine    Question ... confused a little, are we cloning the file, writing to it and marking it clean ?    16:31
sagewk    Vincent_Valentine: are you refering to the notes in the pad, or the feature in general?    16:32
Vincent_Valentine    notes ...    16:32
sagewk    we write to a temp file, clone from there both to the journal and do the target file    16:33
sagewk    this is easier than sequencing the journal vs file object writes    16:33
scuttlemonkey    Vincent_Valentine: for reference:    16:33
Vincent_Valentine    didnt get Tempfile ... why do we need to clone to journal? IMO, Journal doesnt need write data, only entry that clone write is in flight.    16:36
sjustlaptop    sagewk: could even be a property of the bufferlist    16:36
sagewk    it does because of the way the osd handles consistency.  we journal complete transactions that we can roll forward from a known consistency point (snapshot)    16:37
sagewk    if we overwrite files we may not be able to roll forward or backward completely.  posix doesn't let us submit transactions to file systems.    16:37
sagewk    sjustlaptop: yeah, if we can come up with a clean interface    16:38
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sagewk    16:44
sagewk    16:44
joelio    will test these tomorrow, glad to hear of the improvements ;)    16:45
joelio    proxy support welcome too    16:47
joelio    for the gpg keys basically..    16:50
joelio    the dpkg stuff is already handled in OS    16:50
scuttlemonkey    joelio: can add that to the proxy support portion on the pad    16:51
scuttlemonkey    at:    16:51
joelio    scuttlemonkey: sure thing    16:51
scuttlemonkey    thanks    16:52
mikedawson    -1 for interactive. +1 for warning messages on better options and idempotency    16:54
dalgaaf    support distro/system (or configurable) repos with ceph-deploy    16:55
dalgaaf    not only packages from    16:55
dalgaaf    +1 for SUSE    16:59
scuttlemonkey    hehe    17:00
yehudasa    sagewk: originally the ceph conf code (ConfUtils.*) was written so that it would preserve comments, etc.    17:01
ircolle    I would be disappointed if dalgaaf didn't give SUSE a +1 ;-)    17:01
houkouonchi-home    linuxfromscratch? lol joking    17:01
dalgaaf    ircolle: I'm no longer with then, but still using it    17:01
ircolle    dalgaaf - Yes, congrats!    17:02
rturk    ** The session "Increasing Ceph portability" starts in just under 15 minutes!    17:02
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout.    17:02
yehudasa    rturk: I would like to join that hangout    17:03
rturk    ok    17:03
* joelio goes to bed    17:03
joelio    be back for session tomorrow    17:03
rturk    cool :)  thanks for participating in our world time experiment    17:03
joelio    no worries, 1am here, sleepy time    17:04
rturk    'night    17:04
houkouonchi-home    time for me to go grab some dinner    17:04
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scuttlemonkey    Next video session will be:    17:06
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rturk    ** The session "Increasing Ceph portability" starts in 5 minutes!    17:10
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout.    17:10
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rturk    ** The session "Increasing Ceph portability" is starting now!    17:15
rturk    ** Blueprint:    17:15
rturk    ** Pad:    17:15
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    17:15
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rturk    ** The session "Paper cut brainstorm" starts in 5 minutes!    17:40
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout.    17:40
rturk    (paper cuts = small, easily-fixable things that make you mad)    17:40
ircolle    and don't feel like you have to limit your rant to "easily-fixable" - we really want to know what things make you mad in general    17:41
rturk    yeah, they can be axe wounds too    17:44
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rturk    ** The session "Paper cut brainstorm" is starting now!    17:49
rturk    ** Pad:    17:49
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    17:49
sagewk    hi dalgaaf!    17:51
dalgaaf    hi    17:51
dalgaaf    I have to sort out my audio ... sorry    17:52
scuttlemonkey    k    17:52
dalgaaf    go on    17:52
rturk    you sound very dubstep now, it's cool    17:52
erice    The 5 minute Quick Start Guide needs to be update to ceph-deploy.  Was very confused when I started with cuttlefish    17:53
Vincent_Valentine    1 suggestion from NOOB perspective ... Getting started with development and debug deployment    17:53
mikedawson    papercut: I've seen several people with issues who are waiting on quotes/sales for Inktank paid support :-)    17:54
ircolle    what exactly do you mean, Vincent_Valentine?    17:55
rturk    erice: can you elaborate?    17:55
rturk    ack, sorry, I meant Vincent_Valentine :)    17:55
scuttlemonkey    mikedawson: if that happens you email and I get to poke Nigel w/ a hot fork    17:55
dmick    mikedawson: uh, yeah, seems like we could fix that :)    17:55
scuttlemonkey    it's awesome    17:55
rturk    maybe we should upgrade this from paper cuts -> hatchet wounds    17:56
mikedawson    rturk: ha!    17:56
sagewk    any users want to join?    17:57
dmick    ooh, serious pain that maybe fits here better: when ceph-create-keys goes wrong, how to diagnose    17:57
Vincent_Valentine    Some guide on how code is structured may be ... and how to debug/test/unit-tests while developing ... online existing docs are not enough IMO.    17:58
dmick    Vincent_Valentine: ah, ok, so, "a guided tour to the source to help develop"    17:58
Vincent_Valentine    Im not sure .. being new I m finding it lil hard .. but it might be trivial for exisitng contributors    17:59
erice    On the documents, each page should cover what versions of ceph  the document is for.  There are sections in the ceph.conf file that are no longer needed in Cuttlefish    18:00
dalgaaf    to many audio devices    18:00
rturk    technology booooo!    18:00
scuttlemonkey    erice: a fair point, version the doc    18:00
rturk    erice: I totally agree - did you know you can go to, for example, ?    18:01
rturk    maybe we can use that mechanism - docs are versioned alongside code    18:01
scuttlemonkey    rturk: maybe just color code them and allow people to walk through/diff the same doc through versions?    18:02
scuttlemonkey    /shrug    18:02
rturk    sure, could work    18:02
yehudasa    dalgaaf: I think you're ok now    18:03
erice    rturl: did not know that.  I would google for an answer, and it would point me to a ceph doc page that may or may not be correct for cuttlefish.  I could not easily tell if that page was valid for the current version of ceph.    18:04
rturk    erice: yeah, we could do a much better job on the interface for that    18:04
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rturk    ** The session "rbd: copy-on-read for clones" starts in 5 minutes!    18:10
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout.    18:10
rturk    ** The session "rbd: copy-on-read for clones" is starting now!    18:14
rturk    ** Blueprint:    18:14
rturk    ** Pad:    18:14
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    18:14
dmick    not rbd-cor-clones?  :)    18:15
rturk    ya I realized that just as people were populating the pad    18:16
mikedawson    mic broken    18:19
mikedawson    apparently    18:19
scuttlemonkey    spent too many talks saying "copy-on-write clone" eh rturk? :)    18:19
rturk    scuttlemonkey: busted!    18:19
scuttlemonkey    hehe    18:20
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Vincent_Valentine    Is write to original object allowed when it is cloned ?    18:20
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Vincent_Valentine    especially in multi data-center scenario    18:20
Vincent_Valentine    Thanks ..    18:22
rturk    ** The session "rbd: namespace support" starts in 5 minutes!    18:26
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout.    18:26
rturk    ** The session "rbd: namespace support" is starting now!    18:28
rturk    ** Blueprint:    18:28
rturk    ** Pad:    18:28
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    18:28
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davidzlap    Should default namespace be reserved for client backward compatibility?    18:41
rturk    ** The session "rgw: multitenancy" starts in a little less than 5 minutes!    18:41
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout.    18:41
rturk    ** The session "rgw: multitenancy" is starting now!    18:46
rturk    ** Blueprint:    18:46
rturk    ** Pad:    18:46
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    18:46
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sagewk    dragonfly: hi!    19:07
dragonfly    hi    19:08
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rturk    New video feed:    19:11
*** rturk changes topic to "summit schedule: || live video stream: || ping rturk to join the hangout"    19:12
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rturk    ** The session "mds: inline data support" starts in 5 minutes!    19:12
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout.    19:12
rturk    ** The session "mds: inline data support" is starting now!    19:15
rturk    ** Blueprint:    19:15
rturk    ** Pad:    19:15
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    19:15
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rturk    ** The session "cephfs: hole punching" starts in 5 minutes!    19:41
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout.    19:41
* rturk pauses and takes a breath    19:47
rturk    ** The session "cephfs: hole punching" is starting now!    19:47
rturk    ** Blueprint:    19:47
rturk    ** Pad:    19:47
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    19:47
* rturk turns on a dime    19:52
rturk    ** The session "cephfs: read-ahead optimization" is starting now!    19:52
rturk    ** Blueprint:    19:52
rturk    ** Pad:    19:52
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    19:52
rturk    yanzheng: are you watching the youtube live stream?    19:52
rturk    yanzheng: we are starting the readahead optimization talk ahead of schedule    19:52
yanzheng    i'm listening    19:53
rturk    cool :)    19:53
yanzheng    i don't have microphone    19:53
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rturk    ** The session "mds: dumpability" is starting now!    20:07
rturk    ** Blueprint:    20:07
rturk    ** Pad:    20:07
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    20:07
scuttlemonkey    FYI, we're going to power through these last couple comparatively quickly    20:08
scuttlemonkey    so if you have any interest in any of the 3 remaining sessions please let rturk know and join the broadcast    20:08
rturk    ** The session "mds: reduce memory consumption" is starting now!    20:12
rturk    ** Blueprint:    20:12
rturk    ** Pad:    20:12
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    20:12
rturk    doh!  Sorry - blueprint:    20:13
rturk    and pad:    20:13
scuttlemonkey    dalgaaf: just a ping b/c you were listed as interest and we got there really early    20:13
dalgaaf    scuttlemonkey: thx ... the link is still the same?    20:15
scuttlemonkey    yah    20:15
rturk    ** The session "rbd: shared read cache" is starting now!    20:25
rturk    ** Blueprint:    20:25
rturk    ** Pad:    20:25
rturk    ** Please tell rturk or scuttlemonkey if you want to join the hangout    20:25
mikedawson_    scuttlemonkey: can you send me the new link to join?    20:25
scuttlemonkey    Haomaiwa_: just giving you a ping b/c you were listed as interest in the RBD shared read cache    20:26
scuttlemonkey    since we're early    20:26
rturk    mikedawson_: sent via pm, in case scuttlemonkey doens't do it first    20:26
rturk    :)    20:26
mikedawson_    thx    20:26
scuttlemonkey    hehe    20:26
scuttlemonkey    in other news...why am I incapable of typing "interestED"    20:26
scuttlemonkey    /headdesk    20:27
rturk    something to do with a lack of fish in your diet    20:27
scuttlemonkey    hehe    20:27
rturk    did they just turn all the lights off at Inktank HQ?    20:30
scuttlemonkey    lights just auto-died    20:31
rturk    ok, all!  See you in 10 hours.    21:04
*** rturk is now known as rturk-away    21:05
nwat    success!    21:05
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